"Unrepentant wrongdoers": Anyone who dares to fall out of step with the Watchtower... Anyone who dares to think for themselves and who DARES to do the research into the truth about the Watchtower Organization... Anyone who dares to see the truth about the Watchtower CULT...
Anne Marie 1925
JoinedPosts by Anne Marie 1925
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Anne Marie 1925
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Is it true? John Denver asks any Witnesses to leave his concert!
by Witness 007 inversion 1. john denver at his concert asks "if there are any jehovah's witnesses in the audience can you please leave.".
version 2. on the johnny carson show he said the same before singing a patriotic song.
johnny carson told denver "see that cameraman there..and that lighting guy...there jehovahs witnesses, alot of witnesses work for me because their honest people..so now you can leave.".
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Anne Marie 1925
I only just now discovered that this question regarding John Denver asking any JWs to leave his concert was on the internet...
First of all, this is no "Urban Legend." I remember that this did, indeed, happen at least once....
In 1977 I was staying with a JW sister during the summer convention in San Francisco. During the visit, the subject of John Denver's music came up.
The JW sister told me that she also loved John Denver's music and that she and a group of sisters had purchased tickets to attend one of his concerts together. She told me that just after he was introduced to the audience, and before he began the show, he asked if there were any Jehovah's Witnesses in the audience; that if there were any Jehovah's Witnesses in the audience, he wanted them to leave, "Because I hate Jehovah's Witnesses!" she said that he said.
I was very surprised that John Denver, such a kind and gentle man, should say such a thing, so I asked this JW sister what she did, then; did she leave? "Why should I??" she exclaimed indignantly, "I paid for my ticket!!" and I left it at that...
All these years, when I remember this incident, I wonder what could have happened that John Denver would come to hate Jehovah's Witnesses...did they cost him a relationship?? The loss of a loved one?? Did a loved one bleed to death because they believed in the Watchtower's Blood Doctrine? So I thought I'd Google the question, and this thread came up. Again, John Denver telling Jehovah's Witnesses to leave his concert is NOT an "Urban Legend."
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Will the WBTS Order JWs to Kill??
by Anne Marie 1925 in[if !mso]> <mce:style><!
sironare: will the wbts order jw's to kill??
sironare: will the wbts order jw's to kill??
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Anne Marie 1925
(The following original post was submitted in April of 2002. This was BEFORE the Watchtower implemented their "secret" Watchtower Magazine vs their "public" one. Please take note of Alan F's response (#1340) and his brilliant "Watchtower Article" that so cleverly substantiates the issue...)
Dear Post Reader,
About nine months ago, while surfing through different JW web sites, I came across a reference to an e-mail that was sent to the poster.
The e-mail basically said that with the way that things are going with the society, i.e., so many " waking up" and it not being so easy to mislead and control JWs, that there very likely will be a "BIG" announcement regarding the order to kill the "apostates" and the "wicked people."
The source said that it would go something like this:
There would be talks, and some wordings in the magazines, alluding to an upcoming announcement. The whole sha-bang would have lots of building up of suspence, naturally prompting much speculation and gossip among the Brothers.
Then it would come out that there would be a very special WATCHTOWER printed that would be restricted...you could only receive a copy if you were a publisher and an "active" member in "good standing. And you could only get it at the Kingdom Hall.
There would be a certain Sunday scheduled on which every JW would come together to study the special (and SECRET) articles to which only JW's could attend.
In these studies the announcement would be carefully outlined in the following manner:
That there is "New Light." That this "New Light" is that Jehovah will not kill anyone who is His enemy after all. That "Jehovah's People," in order to prove their love and loyalty to Him, must take up weapons in a Holy and Righteous war against Jehovah's enemies.
The first, and most wicked, of these enemies, would be the "APOSTATES." (Basically, anyone who has left the organization and does not believe that they teach "the Truth.")
Family members (who are JW's) would be especially targeted with the responsibility to KILL their relatives who are "apostates." Thus doing, they would be "proving" that they "love Jehovah" and "hate" His enemies. (Loyalty to the organization, at any cost, must be insured.)
(This mentality, and horrid picture of the future, brings vividly to mind the days of the Gestapo during the days of Hitler.)
The e-mail that the poster was quoting was very clear in his reasoning on just how probable this scenario is. In fact, he said that it MUST HAPPEN!!
Because it is only a matter of time, with the growing "discernment" on the part of so many, that the WBTS will have to come up with a believable reason why Armageddon, "God's Holy War," has not come in the manner that the society has taught for so long, they will HAVE to come up with SOMETHING.
It will come out as "New Light" that, just as in the Bible days when Jehovah's servants took up arms and slaughtered many, so, too, must Jehovah's "true" servants do today.
This situation struck me as being quite plausible. Just picturing the Brothers "hungering" for some real "meat in due season," and being tired of the same dish being served in a different manner, and being so well indoctrinated to not think for themselves...to believe and obey whatever the society tells them, I think this would very likely be accepted as "New Light."
I well remember the clever and unhurried but systematic way that those working for Hitler got the citizens of Germany to accept the slaughter of countless innocent people...even to casually walking past the piles of bodies along the side of the road. I remember how families, who were formerly loving and protective of each other, were "programmed" to turn on one another...reporting them to the "proper authorities" for any little "sin," (of disloyalty to the Party), KNOWING THAT THEY WOULD BE KILLED!!
I did not think to print out what I had read at the time I stumbled upon it, as I had been hurriedly looking for something else at the time. When I tried to find the same site later, I could not. What I read has continued to haunt me. The organization is so very sick. They thrive on maintaining absolute control...and obedience. And they WILL get desperate.
Please...have you ever heard of anything to this affect?? I would welcome any reply.
Much love and Angel's blessings!!
Anne Marie
"The unexamined life is not worth living."
Socrates
SironaRe: Will the WBTS order JW's to Kill?? posted 9 years ago (4/17/2002)
Post 368 of 5275
Since 10/10/2001Don't be silly.
** http://www.religioustolerance.org **
Re: Will the WBTS order JW's to Kill?? posted 9 years ago (4/17/2002)
Post 1182 of 9446
Since 4/25/2001I think is is likely that you were reading the posting of one of the
"lunatic fringe" Dubs. It is very difficult to imagine that the WTS could take a turn in this direction; then again, who ever thought that they would "hook up" with the UN?If such a change in dogma did occur, it would not go unnoticed by the media or the police, FBI and BATF. There are many, many Dubs who would find it impossible to abide such a requirement.
Lastly, I doubt that very many apostates would allow themselves to go quietly like sheep to the slaughter.
Re: Will the WBTS order JW's to Kill?? posted 9 years ago (4/17/2002)
Post 2807 of 7300
Since 12/16/2000Most of the witnesses I know would never do something like that.
Anyone who thinks the witnesses would kill apostates or opposers on the order of the WTS are seriously unbalanced. They need to think back to the time they were a witness, and whether they would kill someone on command.
We were witnesses once, too.
Re: Will the WBTS order JW's to Kill?? posted 9 years ago (4/17/2002)
Post 1814 of 1893
Since 3/27/2000I think someone was either 'pulling your leg' or that person has a serious mental problem. What you describe as having been written to you is totally out of character with how the society behaves anyway.
I don't think there is anything there for you to worry about.
AbaddonRe: Will the WBTS order JW's to Kill?? posted 9 years ago (4/17/2002)
Post 1257 of 5931
Since 4/6/2001I agree... it's silly. You'd have to be an utter loofah to believe it would happen. So, not one of the six million Dubs will blow the whistle? The people planning this didn't think about that? So the authrities don't realise that the link to all these bodies is being xJW's within a day or so... and the people planning this didn't think about that. So, when this comes to light, the Borg get recognised as a Worldwide Terror Cult and shutdown everywhere. And the GB didn't think of that.
Please realise there is a difference between being a cultist and being stupid. Sometimes it is hard to tell, true, but they are two different things.
My idea about the Borg morphing into an online cult with JW's becoming techno hermits whose total contact with the world is through the Society's computers, whose every activity is monitored, and who are farmed out as teleworkers to finance the Society is a hell a lot more realistic
Nathan NatasRe: Will the WBTS order JW's to Kill?? posted 9 years ago (4/17/2002)
Post 1185 of 9446
Since 4/25/2001As I said above, I don't think this is likely, but I also think we should stop for a moment and think about what happens when a cult disintegrates.
Jim Jones didn't start out telling people that he wanted them to move to the jungle and drink cyanide laced Kool Aid.
David Koresh didn't start out telling his people that if they wanted to die at the hands of BATF agents, he was the man to follow.
The terrorists who work for the Army Of God are to outward appearances nice Christian people.
Followers of the Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh attempted to perpetrate a mass poisoning on the residents of Antelope, Oregon so that Rahneesh coould increase his political power locally. For a while, Antelope was called Rajneeshpuram.
Shit does happen.
While I believe firmly that the majority of the WTS rank and file Dubs would balk at orders to go out and kill for Jah, I think there IS a possibility that in it's death throes the WTS could issue some very strange "new light," and I think we all know one of two Dubs who will "go with the program" wherever it leads them.
I don't tink anyone can say there is ZERO chance of this happening, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it.
I DONT THINK SO!!!!! posted 9 years ago (4/17/2002)
Post 1 of 2
Since 4/17/2002WEL ANNE MARIE, ALL I CAN SAY IS THAT IF YOUR ONE OF US OR HAVE EVER BEEN THEN YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT JEHOVAH WOULD NEVER WANT US OR EVEN ALLOW US TO KILL "ANYONE"!!!!
WE PROVE OUR LOYALTY TO HIM BY PREACHING THE "GOOD" NEWS TO ALL. iTS A "HOLY" WAR, SO WHY WOULD HE WANT MAN TO KILL HIS ENEMIES FOR HIM. IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE. IF HE WANTED US TO KILL THEM NOW, THEN WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT IN BRINGING ARMAGEDDON.
I THINK THAT YOUR AN APOSTATE MYSELF, U HAVE NO PROPER PROOF OF WHAT U READ, DONT U THINK THAT ITS A BIT OF A COINCIDENCE THAT U CANT FIND IT AGAIN!!????SironaRe: Will the WBTS order JW's to Kill?? posted 9 years ago (4/17/2002)
Post 372 of 5275
Since 10/10/2001OK, I think that there is a MINISCULE chance of this ever happening, and if it did, it would be a minority who would follow it.
I think its needless scaremongering, and its silly to say :
Brothers "hungering" for some real "meat in due season", and being tired of the same dish being served in a different manner
They're not bloody hannibal lecter you know!
Sirona
** http://www.religioustolerance.org **
Nathan NatasRe: Will the WBTS order JW's to Kill?? posted 9 years ago (4/17/2002)
Post 1186 of 9446
Since 4/25/2001They're not bloody hannibal lecter you know!
...but neither was Hannibal Lecter before his first murder...
"When the rabbit screams, the fox comes running -- but not to help."
- Hannibal Lecter -
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Can the Watchtower Prove Their Core "Truths" to Be "True"???
by Anne Marie 1925 in[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>normal</w:view> <w:zoom>0</w:zoom> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables /> <w:snaptogridincell /> <w:wraptextwithpunct /> <w:useasianbreakrules /> </w:compatibility> <w:browserlevel>microsoftinternetexplorer4</w:browserlevel> </w:worddocument> </xml><![endif].
romans 8: 38-39 nwt.
so can the watchtower prove any of their unorthodox core teachings to be true according to the word of god?
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Anne Marie 1925
Yes, BrainCleaned, I hear your point. My point in posting is simply this: If the Watchtower sincerely teaches "truth" according to the Bible, then their "Biblical Truths" would be clearly taught in Scripture, and yet not one of their core teachings peculiar to them is true according to the Book they claim to represent...
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Can the Watchtower Prove Their Core "Truths" to Be "True"???
by Anne Marie 1925 in[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>normal</w:view> <w:zoom>0</w:zoom> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables /> <w:snaptogridincell /> <w:wraptextwithpunct /> <w:useasianbreakrules /> </w:compatibility> <w:browserlevel>microsoftinternetexplorer4</w:browserlevel> </w:worddocument> </xml><![endif].
romans 8: 38-39 nwt.
so can the watchtower prove any of their unorthodox core teachings to be true according to the word of god?
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Anne Marie 1925
Can the Watchtower Prove Their Core “Truths” to Be “True”?
The rank and file of the Watchtower holds certain core beliefs as basic “truths”; as “absolute truths.” If you are truly one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, these “truths” are to be believed without question.
All over the world, devout members of the Watchtower are united in their absolute certainty that they not only “have the truth” but that they are “in the truth,” because they believe that their Watchtower Organization is “the truth”; as if their religion is an absolute “truth,” even though their organization’s teachings and “understandings” have been altered, changed, or completely discarded many times over the course of their more than one-hundred-and-twenty-year history; their discarded “truths” often to be brought back later as “recycled truth,” presented to the current rank and file as “New Light.”
Loyal members of the Watchtower Organization all understand that to remain faithful to the Watchtower…ever respectful, humbly submissive and obedient and loyal without question…is akin to showing humble obedience and loyal faithfulness to Jehovah God, as they believe in an inarguable “fact”: That the Watchtower is “GOD’S organization.” Of this “fact” there can be no doubt in the mind of the individual Jehovah’s Witness…
It is interesting to note, however, that while loyal members of the Watchtower are united in their core Watchtower beliefs…that they trustingly believe as the Watchtower teaches them to believe…as a whole, they appear to be completely oblivious to the glaring fact that not one of the Watchtower’s peculiar and unorthodox teachings are Scriptural! They cannot prove even one of their core Watchtower beliefs to be actual “truth” using God’s Word.
The following is an example of the Watchtower’s “Core Teachings” which are not Biblically sound:
- The Watchtower is the only “true religion,” approved by God
- One must join the Watchtower and believe its teachings and obey their leaders and humbly submit to them and remain loyal to them in order to have any favor from God.
- The leaders of the Watchtower are chosen by God and/or Jesus to lead “God’s People” in the way of “truth.”
- The only way to be right with God is to follow the Watchtower.
- The only way to know God’s truth is to follow the Watchtower.
- The only way to have any hope of gaining eternal life is to follow the Watchtower.
- The Watchtower is “God’s only Channel” to mankind on the earth.
- Only by following the Watchtower can one gain a “proper understanding” of Biblical Truth; only through the Watchtower literature and their teachings from the platform can one attain “accurate knowledge” of God’s Word.
- In order to be “right with God,” one must remain “in good standing” with the Watchtower.
- The Good News about the Christ is NOT for the rank and file of the Watchtower.
- The Watchtower teaches that Jesus was only a “creation” of God; that He is God’s first “creation.” They do not believe that He is “begotten of God,” or that He is of the same divine essence of God. (“Begotten” and “created” is not the same thing.)
- Followers of the Watchtower do not believe that Jesus is God, but that He is a separate, “little god”; a “lesser god” apart from Jehovah God.
- The Watchtower teaches that Jesus is actually the archangel, Michael, who became the perfect man, Jesus. Jesus is not to be worshipped or prayed to, but “True Christians” are to follow His perfect example of perfect obedience to Jehovah God; thus, “True Christians” are “Christ-like” in their humble efforts to follow Christ’s example of serving Him.
- God’s Holy Spirit is not “God” but is His “active force” by which He accomplishes His will. The Holy Spirit of God is an impersonal “it.”
- The Watchtower teaches that there is a “two fold” system of God’s true followers: a “Little Flock,” and the “Great Crowd.”
- The “Great Crowd” believes that they are to live forever on the earth.
- The “Little Flock” is the 144,000 spoken of in Revelation, and only they have “the heavenly hope.”
- Only members of the Watchtower are “True Christians.”
- All members of the Christian Faith who are outside of the Watchtower (those who follow Christ and the core teachings of the Christian Faith) are FALSE Christians, led astray by Satan, and all Christian Churches are “dens of the devil.”
- All Watchtower members have been taught that God/Jesus “examined all Christian Religions” and chose the Watchtower to be “God’s only Channel” by which He dispenses pure truth to all of mankind.
- Watchtower members believe that Christ has already returned, but “invisibly.”
- Members of the Watchtower must not “think for themselves” in regard to “Biblical Truth,” as this would make them guilty of “independent thinking,” which would then show them to be “rebellious,” “haughty,” and “puffed up with pride,” becoming, then, “just like Satan” who was the first “independent thinker.”
- Only the Watchtower Organization properly understands the Bible.
- Watchtower members must not participate in prayer with anyone other than another Watchtower member, for that one is unknowingly praying to Satan.
- To leave the Watchtower is to leave Jehovah God.
- To leave the Watchtower and to refuse to any longer view or believe that they represent God, and to refuse to “repent” and to come back, is akin to “a dog who has returned to its vomit,” and that one is “as good as dead.” That one is marked for “destruction” at God’s hands during His “day of wrath” at Armageddon.
- Anyone who leaves the fold of the Watchtower to then become an orthodox Christian is a “wicked apostate,” now believing and following “lies from Satan.” That one is now a “hater of Jehovah God”; an “enemy of God.”
- Members of the Watchtower claim that they “do not serve the Watchtower Organization,” but that they “serve Jehovah” by way of the organization, as this is Jehovah God’s arrangement.
- Watchtower members do not believe that the Blood of Jesus is “enough.” They do not believe that they can “come to Jesus” for the forgiveness of their sins, or to have eternal life. They believe that they must WORK for the “hope” of their salvation; they do not believe that eternal life is a “free gift.”
- Watchtower members believe that they are the only ones who have any hope of being spared at Armageddon; everyone else outside the Watchtower Organization is “wicked” and will be “destroyed” by Jehovah God at Armageddon.
- Only those in “good standing” with the Watchtower have any hope of surviving Armageddon, or of attaining everlasting life.
- For a Watchtower member to allow a blood transfusion for their spouse or parent or child is to commit a terrible sin against God; it is a deliberate breaking of His law, and they could well be disfellowshipped for it, as this would be considered to be the same as “signing their own death warrant.”
- For a Watchtower member to associate in any way with an ex member (except in cases of serious “Family Business”) is to be “disloyal to Jehovah,” as the ex member who refuses to come back to the Watchtower has shown himself to be an “enemy of God,” “rebellious,” and a “hater of Jehovah.”
We only stop at this point because the list of unorthodox beliefs of those loyal to the Watchtower Organization is simply too long…
If one is truly interested in what God’s Word teaches, one can easily find God’s truth in His Word, for His Word is truth (John 17:17 NWT).
Here are a few thoughts from God’s Word to consider:
- “Do not put your trust in nobles, nor in the son of earthling man to whom no salvation belongs.” Psalms 146:3 NWT
- “Every saying of God is refined. He is a shield to those taking refuge in Him. Add nothing to His words, that He may not reprove you, and that you may not have to be proved a liar.” Proverbs 30:5-6 NWT
- In the book of 2 Peter, Christians are warned to not forget the accurate knowledge of Jesus Christ, “For if these things are not present in anyone, he is blind, shutting his eyes to the light…
- “No, it was not by following artfully contrived stories that we acquainted you with the power and presence of our Lord Jesus Christ…
- “However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among you…they will exploit you with counterfeit words…Abandoning the straight path, they have been misled.” 2 Peter 1:8-9, 16, 2 Peter 2:1-3, 15 NWT
- “While they are promising freedom, they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whoever is overcome by another is enslaved by that one.” 2 Peter 2:19 NWT
- Regarding Paul’s letters to Christians, Peter comments: “In them, however, some things are hard to understand, which the untaught and unsteady are twisting as they do also the rest of the scriptures…
- “Be on your guard that you may not be led away with them…and fall from your own steadfastness...but go on growing in the…knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity.” 2 Peter 3:16-17 NWT
Jesus has some things to say that we may want to give heed to:
- “Come to Me, all you who are toiling and loaded down, and I will refresh you. Take my yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am mild-tempered and lowly in heart, and you will find refreshment for your souls. For my yoke is kindly and My load is light.” Matthew 11: 28-30 NWT
- “No man can come to Me unless the Father, who sent Me, draws him…” John 6:44 NWT
- “I am the way, the truth and the life…” John 14:6 NWT
- “…I am the light of the world. He that follows Me will by no means walk in darkness, but will possess the light of life.” John 8:12 NWT
- “…If you remain in My word, you are really my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free…therefore, if the Son sets you free, you will be actually free.” John 8:31-32, 36 NWT
- “I am the bread of life…that comes down from heaven, so that anyone may eat of it and not die… Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. He that feeds on My flesh and drinks of My blood has everlasting life...” John 6:48,50,53-54 NWT
- “You are searching the scriptures, because you think that by means of them you will have everlasting life; and these are the very ones that bear witness about Me. And yet you do not want to come to Me that you may have life.” John 5:39-40 NWT
- “How can you believe when you are accepting glory from one another?” John 5:44 NWT
The apostle Paul has words for those Christians who have left the pure truth of Christ:
- “For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God; but not according to accurate knowledge…but seeking to establish their own” (righteousness). Romans 10:2-3 NWT
- “…Those in (union with) Jesus Christ have no condemnation. For…Jesus Christ has set you free from the law of sin and of death.” Romans 8:1-2 NWT
- “You were bought with a price; stop becoming slaves of men. 1 Corinthians 7:23 NWT
- “…We have renounced the underhanded things…not walking with cunning, neither adulterating the Word of God, but by making the truth manifest…” 2 Corinthians 4:2 NWT
- “If, now, the Good News we declare is in fact veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious Good News about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through. For we are preaching, not ourselves, but Christ Jesus as Lord...” 2 Corinthians 4:3-5 NWT
- “Do not go beyond the things written.” 1 Corinthians 4:6 NWT
- “Keep testing whether you are in the (Christian) faith, keep proving what you yourselves are…” 2 Corinthians 13:5 NWT
- “Make sure of all things…” 1 Thessalonians 5:21 NWT
- “…In order that we should no longer be babes, tossed about as by waves and carried hither and thither by every wind of teaching by means of the trickery of men, by means of cunning and contriving error. But speaking the truth, let us by love grow up in all things into Him who is the head, Christ. Ephesians 4:14-15 NWT
- “…They received the Word with the greatest eagerness of mind, examining the scriptures daily as to whether these things were so.” Acts 17:11 NWT
The apostle Paul passionately warns Christians of those who could so quickly remove them from the One who called them “over to another sort of Good News,” that even if an “angel out of heaven” should declare to them as good news something beyond what the apostles declared to them as good news, “let him be accursed.” Galatians 1: 6-8 NWT
Paul goes on to say, “But because of the false brothers brought in quietly, who sneaked in to spy upon our freedom which we have in (union with) Christ Jesus, THAT THEY MIGHT COMPLETELY ENSLAVE US…to these we did not yield by way of submission, no, not for an hour…” Galatians 2:4-5 NWT
“Therefore, as you have accepted Christ Jesus the Lord, go on walking in (union with) Him, rooted and being built up in Him, and being stabilized in the (Christian) faith…
“Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry you off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men…” Colossians 2:6-8 NWT
So what, then, are we to conclude?
In this relatively short list of scriptures, one can see the wisdom of “examining the scriptures daily as to whether these things (are) so” in order to be able to properly ascertain as to whether or not any “teachings of man” is really “truth.”
Remember that one is clearly admonished at Hebrews 5:14 to have their “perceptive powers trained THROUGH USE,” and this most certainly involves the practice of “THINKING.”
Paul reasons that as “a babe” one depends upon others to teach them right and wrong; truth from lies, but that once one has become an adult, they put away “the traits of a babe.” They take responsibility for their choices and beliefs. (1 Corinthians 13:11 NWT)
To allow others to “do your thinking for you”…especially when it comes to “accurate knowledge” about God and Jesus…is not being an “adult”; it is not taking responsibility; it is not having ones “perceptive powers trained,” nor is it “making sure of all things.”
Recall that Paul praised the Beoreans for NOT “just swallowing” what was “fed” to them as “truth,” but that they diligently checked out everything to see how it compared with God’s Word. Surely they are an example to follow. (Compare Acts 17:11 NWT)
The listing of the Watchtower’s core beliefs do not match up with the listing of scriptures that follow…and why is that? Could it be that the “great deceiver” of all time has used the Word of God to “twist His truth” in order to deceive unwary ones? Is it possible that the Watchtower Organization is not truly teaching “the truth”??
Let us take a quick look at what the apostle Paul had to say in regard to any religion or group of men who did not teach the truth according to God’s Word, but an altered version of it in order to “trick” unsuspecting ones into believing their “doctrines of men…”
What Paul has to say about following “teachings of men”:
“But I am afraid that somehow, as the serpent seduced Eve by its cunning, your minds might be corrupted away from…the Christ…
“For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light.
“It is therefore nothing great if his ministers also keep transforming themselves into ministers of righteousness…” 2 Corinthians 11:3-4, 13-15, 20 NWT
“For though we walk in the flesh, we do not wage warfare according to (what we are in the) flesh.
“For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly, but powerful by God for overturning powerfully entrenched things.
“For we are overturning reasonings and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God; and we are bringing every thought into captivity to make it obedient to the Christ.” 2 Corinthians 10:3-5 NWT
But what about loyalty to Jehovah God? What about loyalty to the Watchtower?
It is not “going against God” to “make sure of all things,” nor is there any reason to fear that Jehovah God will somehow be “displeased” if one decides to ‘carefully examine the scriptures as to whether these (Watchtower teachings) are so.’ (Acts 17:11 NWT) After all, it is His Word that plainly warns us that we are to “have our perceptive powers trained through use,” and that as we are each personally responsible for the choices that we make, “each of us will render an account.” (Hebrews 5:14; Romans 14:12 NWT)
We have been promised the Holy Spirit as a “helper”:
We have been promised “the helper,” that is, Jesus has promised us that the Holy Spirit will be there to help us and to “guide us into all truth.” (John 16:13 NWT) (See also Matthew 7:9; Luke 11:13 NWT)
With the promise of the Holy Spirit, “the helper,” to “guide us into all truth” being made available to us if we only prayerfully ask God for it, we can trust that we will be able to understand God’s Word, no longer feeling that we need to depend upon others to teach us…
Regarding the guidance of the Holy Spirit, 1 John 2: 26-27 tells us:
“These things I say to you about those who are trying to mislead you.
“And as for you, the anointing you received from Him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to be teaching you, but, as the anointing from Him is teaching you about all things, and is true and is no lie, and just as it has taught you, remain in Him.”
Yes, we cannot Biblically claim that we are not responsible for our religious beliefs simply because we chose to believe an “authority” who claimed to know better than we, no, but God holds each of us responsible for our own actions.
We have God’s Word; we have the promise of the Holy Spirit; we have our brain; we have the scriptural admonitions to “think,” and to “examine the scriptures as to whether these things (are) so,” and to “make sure of all things,” and we have already seen several warnings in God’s Word as to how easily one can be “deceived,” so there is really no reason to fear God’s displeasure in following the instructions found in His Word. (See Romans 14:12; Hebrews 5:14; Acts 17:11; 1 Thessalonians 5:21 NWT)
If we truly love our heavenly Father, and if we really are “lovers of truth,” and if we truly believe that God’s Word “is truth,” we will want to give it more weight than any “teachings of men” in considering any doctrinal truth of any religion that claims to teach the Word of God; God’s Word should always be our final “Spiritual Authority.” After all, did not both God and Jesus point mankind to His Word? (See John 17:17 NWT)
As for God’s love for His followers, the apostle Paul tells us:
“For I am convinced that neither death nor life nor angels nor governments nor things now here nor things to come nor powers nor height nor depth nor any other creation will be able to separate us from God’s love that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Romans 8: 38-39 NWT
Let us consider one last word of comfort from God’s Word…
“We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one. And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true, and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.” 1 John 5:19-20 KJV
So can the Watchtower prove any of their unorthodox core teachings to be true according to the Word of God? No, they cannot. Not even one…
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After Armageddon Diary (Many JWs just haven't "thought it through"!!)
by Anne Marie 1925 ini guess were still in a state of shock.
it seems that there are a lot of us that feel that we had a lot more freedom before armageddon.
world society is not my idea of a paradise at all, and i really think i would rather be dead then to live like this.
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Anne Marie 1925
DIARY OF MY POST ARMAGEDDON LIFE
(Edited and embellished) (Some portions were used with permission from MacGregor Ministries website)
DAY 1: Well, the Big “A” is over and I survived. I made it to the Kingdom Hall this morning. By the end of the day most of the congregation had gathered at the Hall. I guess we’re still in a state of shock. We all hugged, and then we went looking around for others. Some brothers and sisters are still missing. Ed Thorn, our presiding overseer, told us that those who were missing should have spent more time in Field Service.
DAY 2: Brother Thorn called a special meeting this morning. He announced that he and the other elders would now be
assuming full authority over our new community until contact is reestablished with Watchtower Headquarters. All decisions regarding community regulations, living arrangements, work assignments, and all other matters will be decided or resolved at the sole discretion of the elders. The first new rule was not long in coming: All brothers and sisters are now required to report to the Kingdom Hall at 8:00am sharp every morning to receive work assignments and other instructions.
DAY 3: Brother Thorn has assigned me to the burial detail. It seems that the majority of us single brothers have been assigned to this most unpleasant duty. All the dead bodies are already starting to get to me. It sickens me to watch as the birds and other animals scavenge through the rotting corpses. I saw a raven pluck out an eyeball today. Disgusting!! Rob Johnson got a bulldozer running and has begun to dig one of several huge common graves. My job is to go around collecting bodies and to load them into the back of a pickup truck. The smell is terrible…
DAY 4: Well, we had our first Judicial Hearing today. Larry and Sue Winters had moved into the McRae mansion in what was once the exclusive Cypress Oaks subdivision. The problem was that Sister Thorn had already had her eye on the place
and, as wife of the Presiding Overseer, she figured that she should have had first choice. Brother Thorn told Brother and Sister Winters that they had no right to claim anything without the expressed approval of the elders. They were then ordered to be out of the house by nightfall. The Winters were very disappointed, but they agreed to move out.
DAY 5: Today at the morning meeting, the Thorns announced that they would be moving into the McRae place. The Winters were livid, but they didn't say anything. It was also announced that the surrounding estate homes had been assigned to the other elders. Position has its privilege, even in the New World. Some of the brothers are already calling the area, "Elder Hill."
It was also announced that anyone wanting to appropriate a home must first file a written request with the elders. I have decided to remain in my own house; it just doesn't seem right to move into someone else's home, even if they were worldly. I feel sad when I go into a house and see all the family pictures and personal belongings. Most of the others don't seem to feel the way I do…it doesn't seem to bother them to loot the dead.
DAY 8: Well, this morning at the meeting the elders announced that there was to be a new Meeting Schedule.
On Sunday we will still have the Public Talk followed by a study of old Watchtower articles until we get new magazines. On Tuesday night we will have a Congregational Book Study. The Service Meeting has been canceled, (no need for it anymore), along with the MinistrySchool. These have been replaced by an Instructional Session to be held on Friday nights. This new meeting will instruct us on how to conduct ourselves in the New World Society. The best thing is, of course, NO MORE FIELD SERVICE!!
DAY 10: This burial work is taking a heavy toll on me. I just can't help but feel saddened at the waste of so much human life. Why couldn't Jehovah have found a way to save more people? The children are the worst; clutched in their mother’s arms, or clinging to one another. I can't stand to see their little bodies anymore. I don't think I'll report for work tomorrow.
DAY 11: I didn't report for work today. Ed Thorn came by later in the morning and asked me why I wasn't at work. I told him that I didn't feel well. He told me that I better get back to work…that everyone feels well all the time in the New World. He also told me that depression and mental anxiety were things of the past. Of course, he doesn't have to bury the bodies.
DAY 14: It's been two weeks now. I really miss things like electricity and running water. I wonder if we'll ever get
everything working again. Last night Rob Johnson and I borrowed a generator from the Hall and hooked it up to my
television and VCR. We had such a great time just relaxing and watching old "Star Trek" videos and a tape of last year's Super Bowl. I really miss television.
DAY 15: At the morning meeting, Brother Thorn publicly reprimanded Rob and me for watching television. The elders
have decided that, henceforth, watching videos is prohibited since “we do not want our new Paradise to be contaminated by
the Old World.” Thorn speculated that one day we might have “Theocratic Television” from the Society. (“The Watchtower
Channel”?? Spare me.) Also, the elders got really upset at me after I was caught with the book, “Watchtower Doctrines for Dummies.” It seems that they even consider THIS book to be “apostate literature,” even though the content is straight from our own publications and is unadulterated in any way.
DAY 20: Still no word from the Society. We have spoken to representatives from surrounding congregations, but the elders are not allowing anyone to travel. Carol Woods wanted to visit her sister in the next county to see if she made it through okay, but Brother Thorn told her to stay put and to be patient. After all, he said, she would have plenty of time to see her sister later. I really felt that that was a cruel and insensitive thing to say.
DAY 30: We finally finished most of the burial work. I am so exhausted and so relieved. The scavenger birds are still hanging around. I have grown to hate the sight of those fat, disgusting creatures. One of the damn things tried to attack me today. I think they have acquired a real taste for human flesh.
DAY 45: Many of the other brothers and sisters are getting pretty sick of being bossed around by the elders. They run things like an old Southern Plantation: We’re the slaves and they are the overseers. I have been reassigned to work on the Communal Farm. It is hard work, but it is an improvement over the burial detail. Sam Greene is organizing a committee to speak to the elders about the complaints that we all have.
DAY 47: Surprise!! The elders found out about Sam Greene's attempted "rebellion." At the morning meeting he was publicly
reproved and told to pray for a “humble spirit.” No one is to speak to him until he has shown “proper repentance.” I can't
believe that we are disfellowshipping people in the New World.
DAY 51: Today a messenger finally arrived from the Society. Wade Peters, a young Bethelite, arrived on horseback. He
told us that the Society has moved all the headquarters staff to Patterson after the destruction of New York City. We also
received the first post-Armageddon Watchtower (now to be issued quarterly). Many of us had hoped that it would contain some information that would allow us more personal freedom, but we were disappointed to only read that we were to keep on following the instructions of the local elders until further notice; that we were to remain “respectful” and “obedient.” He also gave all the elders a copy of a new procedural manual entitled, “ORGANIZATION FOR THE NEW WORLD,” but none of the rest of us was allowed to see it.
DAY 69: My best friend got married today in a “shotgun wedding”!! Rob and Sally Kennedy had been discovered together while engaged in a heavy kissing session. After a judicial meeting, Brother Thorn announced that they were now married…without any ceremony or anything! Rob objected strenuously, explaining that he and Sally had not had sex. Brother Thorn, however, declared that the decision was in keeping with the New Elder Procedure Manual. Sally seems happy enough, but Rob is in a state of shock. I remember he once told me that he liked Sally's body, but that he thought that she was about as dumb and boring as a box of rocks. Now he is married to her FOREVER. I'll have to remember to keep my hands in my pockets when I date any sisters.
DAY 80: The newlyweds are not getting along. There has been a lot of gossip about their horrible spats. Rob confided to
me today that he was so desperate that he went to the elders in an attempt to get the marriage annulled. They told him that according to the Society's New Procedure Manual, no divorces or annulments will be allowed for any reason. Also, all marriages now have to be approved by the local body of elders.
DAY 81: Sam Greene was reinstated today. He is still unhappy, but he is now keeping his thoughts to himself.
DAY 89: We are all in a state of shock! Rob committed suicide today. I guess the idea of spending eternity with Sally was just
too much for him. The elders refused to allow us to hold any kind of memorial service for him. I volunteered to bury my friend. Brother Thorn said to put him in one of the common graves where we had put the worldly persons. No one came to the grave site; not even his widow. I stood there alone over his grave and said a prayer for my friend. I will miss Rob greatly.
DAY 100: Life is becoming more and more miserable for many of us. The elders keep placing new rules on us every day. We are told that we must lead “Holy Lives of Service and Submission.” No dissent or discussion is allowed. It seems that there are a lot of us that feel that we had a lot more freedom before Armageddon. (I would never have thought that I would ever be feeling nostalgic about the Old World.)
DAY 111: I can't take it here anymore. I am going to travel to my brother's place which is about a hundred miles from here.
Traveling on foot, I think I can make it in about ten days. I wish I could get some gasoline for my car, but I’d be sure to be caught. I'll have to sneak out since the elders still aren't giving anyone permission to travel. I have stored some food and water and plan to leave tonight after the curfew. I hope my brother is still alive; maybe he will know if Mom and Dad are okay.
DAY 112: I made it out of town today. I wonder if they have missed me yet. The destruction all over the countryside is just incredible. How will we ever rebuild everything? I've already seen quite a few skeletons. I guess there is still a lot of burial work to be done before we can build a Paradise.
DAY 113: I ran into a group of brothers from the West View Congregation. I was detained at gunpoint! Brother Thorn had
gotten word to them to be on the lookout for me. I am furious. I am not a criminal! Why am I not free to visit my own brother? Why do I need “permission” to visit my family??
DAY 114: Ed Thorn and two ministerial servants arrived today to escort me back home. They were all carrying guns.
DAY 115: I was, of course, disfellowshipped at the morning meeting. I have been assigned to Latrine Duty to “help” me to attain “humility and repentance,” and “respect for authority.”
DAY 123: I finally blew up today at the re-indoctrination meeting. I told Ed Thorn that I was sick to death of him acting like a Theocratic “Hitler.” I said I was leaving the community and that he had better not try to stop me. Big mistake.
Thorn called in his Police Force and had me arrested; I was shackled hand and foot. I am now being detained under armed guard in a makeshift jail cell in the Kingdom Hall basement.
DAY 125: My judicial hearing was held today. Ed Thorn acted as lead prosecutor. According to normal Watchtower Procedure, the hearing was of course held in secret; I had no Defense Counsel, and I could call no witnesses.
In the end, I was judged “guilty” of being an “unrepentant apostate.” Then I was solemnly informed that according to the Society's instructions, as per their new Procedural Manuel, “ORGANIZATION FOR THE NEW WORLD,” the penalty for apostasy is death by stoning.
My execution is scheduled for tomorrow.
DAY 126: Well, this is the end. Later today, I will be led out for my execution by stoning. I would rather be shot in the
back of the head, but the Society obviously feels that stoning provides a better object lesson. If I get a chance I will throw
one of the rocks back at Ed Thorn. The funny thing is that I really don’t feel so bad about my impending demise. This New
World Society is not my idea of a “Paradise” at all, and I really think I would rather be dead then to live like this. I don't want to live with these people any longer, much less for all eternity.
(“From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained” to paradise lost again. So this is what I had worked so hard for…)
EPILOGUE: Everyone turned out for my stoning, even the kids. Ed Thorn solemnly pronounced my death sentence and then he quoted scripture, telling everyone to "not to let their eye feel sorry for me,” an “unrepentant apostate.” No one did.
My only regret is that they tied my hands behind my back so that I couldn't return any of their rocks with interest. (Not very sporting of them.) The last thing I remember seeing before the lights went out was the sickening smirk on Ed Thorn's face just as one of my oldest friends hurled a huge rock straight at my head. I guess that’s when I died…
Then I woke up.
I was in Heaven. And there was St. Peter just looking at me.
"Welcome to Paradise, my child," he said, as he gently took my hand. Confused and perplexed, I said, "But I thought that Paradise was back on Earth with the Jehovah’s Witnesses…"
"No," answered St. Peter with a loving smile. "That was Hell."
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Has anyone heard of "Secret Disfellowshipping" by Jehovah's Witnesses? Menlo Park Ca. Congregation. Update.
by Balaamsass inno doubt everyone has been following the juan viejo postings regarding the watchtower kingdom hall "grab" on jwn for the last couple of years.
called the mrs and me to say "wow- you have to google this" we did...came here to jwn ...became members..and the rest is history.. in the last nine months i have been calling and emailing contacts in the silicon valley for verification on the societies theft and forced sale of the menlo park kingdom hall (near the new facebook heaquarters) because the story seemed...a little far fetched.
every reliable contact i made has confirmed what juan reported.
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Anne Marie 1925
Hopefully, more and more of the rank-and-file of the Watchtower will begin to WAKE UP and at least do a cautionary search on the internet for information...
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"DON'T BE AFRAID TO DIE FOR THE TRUTH"
by Mary inmy jw sister was over tonight for supper and after a couple of glasses of vino she told me that "today's watchtower study was bullshit" and that one of the 'elite elders' made a comment that bothered her a great deal.. he was apparently at bethel not too long ago and "one of the big-wigs" who was giving a talk said "don't be afraid of dying for the truth brothers" and this jackass was stupid enough to repeat this at the meeting.
it bothered my sister a great deal and i said to her: "soooo are they going to start passing out the kood-aid or what?
" she knew exactly what i was talking about and she said "ya, i wondered the same thing.
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Anne Marie 1925
If only Watchtowerites could "hear" the term, "Watchtower," rather than, "The Truth"; they just might "get it"!!!
Hail, Watchtower!!!!
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The Danger of Holding Your Tongue and Having Your Head Explode w/JWs
by metatron incould we have 'jehovah's witness teaching' listed as a cause of mental impairment in medical handbooks?
so it could more easily diagnosed?.
i got stuck with some witness ladies chatting about how increased gasoline prices could lead to armageddon.
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Anne Marie 1925
Metatron, that was a good one!!! What practical wit!!
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SECRET LETTER of Watchtower Media Changes!
by TheSnarkyApologist inhere's a letter that has circulated among many ex-watchtowerites!.
just thought you'd want to know!.
awake!
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Anne Marie 1925
SO glad that this was posted!!! The Watchtower appears to be dying...valiantly...but dying, nonetheless. You can't fool all the people for ever...